by Kevin Werbach
July 9, 2007 at 10:11 pm
· Filed under Podcasts and Video, Session Content, Speakers, Supernova07
David Weinberger is the author of, most recently, Everything is Miscellaneous, which argues that bottom-up information swarms are emerging from our “new digital disorder,” potentially to the benefit of both customers and businesses. Andrew Keen is the author of Cult of the Amateur, which claims that “today’s Internet is killing our culture.”
The contrast between these two viewpoints illuminates crucial issues about our economy and our society. At Supernova 2007, David and Andrew presented the central ideas of their books, and then sat down for an at-times intense debate about the consequences of our increasingly decentralized world.
David Weinberger and Andrew Keen:
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[...] Supernova has posted the <a href=”http://conversationhub.com/2007/07/09/video-david-weinberger-and-andrew-keen/”>video</a> of the session I did with Andrew Keen, author of <a href=”http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0385520808?ie=UTF8&tag=andkee-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0385520808″>The Cult of the Amateur</a>. It begins with my 15-minute version of my Everything is Misc talk, followed by Andrew’s more informal opener, and then us discussion whether the Internet is killing culture. <font style=’font-size:80%’;>[Tags:<a href=”http://www.technorati.com/tags/andrew+keen” rel=”tag”> andrew_keen</a> <a href=”http://www.technorati.com/tags/supernova2007″ rel=”tag”> supernova2007</a> <a href=”http://www.technorati.com/tags/supernova07″ rel=”tag”> supernova07</a> <a href=”http://www.technorati.com/tags/berkman” rel=”tag”> </a>]</font> [...]
[...] This feeds back nicely to something that David Weinberger said in a fascinating debate with Andrew Keen which you can see on Kevin Warbach’s Conversation Hub. David has recently published a book with the provocative title Everything is Miscellaneous. It’s on my reading list but in short David makes several important observations which I reinterpret as follows: [...]
[...] David Weinberger commits one of Keen’s cardinal sins: Thou shalt not “vlog” [...]
[...] I was sent a link (thanks Jason) to a debate between David Weinberger and Andrew Keen at the Wall Street Journal. This follows on the video recording of their debate at Supernova. [...]
[...] Both authors have argued their points separately and against other people. But now they have squared-off against each other and the sparks are flying. The full text of one of such debates has been published by the Wall Street Journal. Earlier, they also argued at the Supernova conference and the video recording of that debate has been published. [...]
[...] Please note that I have *not* read The Cult of the Amateur. I recently heard Keen interviewed on CBC Radio (Canadian public radio) and more recently watched his session with Dave Weinberger at Supernova 2007. That was enough exposure for me. I don’t buy into his basic premise so I won’t bother with his book. [...]
[...] Sunday, July 29th, 2007 in change Bill Kerr has begun what I hope will be an ongoing critique of Web2 in the more thorough and thoughtful BK way. Unlike the rise of general and non specific criticisms of the idea of Web2 that seems to have been emboldened by Keen’s book and attention, Bill manages to articulate his critique without calling a class of people monkeys. It’s better that everyone has their own interactive medium and chaos reigns, than the alternative of Big Media or traditional School alone. If we want radical change in the media and education then there is no alternative but to go through chaos. “Web 2.0” won’t change School dramatically if it doesn’t also change society dramatically. [...]
[...] Seine Antagonisten sind die Vertreter des neuen Web. Vordenker wie Lawrence Lessig (Creative Commons), Chris Anderson (The Long Tail), Don Tapscott (Wikinomics), Dan Gillmor (We The Media) oder David Weinberger (Everything is Miscellaneous, Cluetrain Manifesto). Chris Anderson hat bereits 2006 im San Francisco Chronicle die Klinge mit ihm gekreuzt. 2007 sind David Weinberger und Andrew Keen bereits zweimal aufeinander getroffen. Anfang Juli diesen Jahres debattierten sie auf dem Podium der Supernova Konferenz und kurz danach auf Einladung des Wall Street Journals. Und weil sie jetzt schon so schön aufeinander eingespielt sind, treten sie im September auch gleich noch gemeinsam auf der PICNIC ‘07 Konferenz auf. Sogar bei amazon.com werden ihre neuen Bücher als Doppelpack angeboten. Keen frotzelt darüber in seinem Blog: Could Weinberger exist without me? Could I exist with him? Is this a publisher’s plot or just the public effluence of a bad marriage? Might we even be the same person, opposing sides of the same debate, arguing to generate sales of each other’s books. Oh dear, another mainstream conspiracy theory. First Stalin and Hitler, then Rumsfield and Saddam Hussein, now Keen and Weinberger. Do you think That I should alert the blogosphere about it? [...]
[...] At present I’m in what Gartner might call the trough of disillusionment. While my enthusiasm for all things Web 2.0 is as strong as ever, I am seeing disturbing signs about how Web 2.0 is presented that leave me deeply troubled. Much of this stems from my watching a video recording of a debate between David Weinberger and Andrew Keen which was recorded at Supernova. It was riveting viewing at a number of levels. I have since replayed portions to help gain more insights into the discussion and it has led me on a thought stream that’s taking a different course to that of many other commenters. For those who want a potted take, there is a very good ‘live blogged’ commentary at Social Media Club. For reference, David is the author of Everything is Miscellaneous (he was also co-author of The Cluetrain Manifesto) while Andrew authored The Cult of the Amateur. [...]
[...] We verdrinken in informatie tegenwoordig. En al die informatie genereert alleen nog maar meer informatie. Wat moeten we met al die keus? Kunnen we wel kiezen? Maken we de goede keuzes? Kunnen we met een gerust hart bepaalde informatie buitensluiten? Dat is best lastig en persoonlijk raak ik er ook wel eens flink gestrest van. [...]
[...] Ce livre en énerve plus d’un et suscite des critiques largement idéologiques de ceux qu’affole cette “montée des amateurs”. Vous en trouverez des exemples dans les confrontations publiques entre Weinberger et Andrew Keene auteur du “The Cult of the Amateur: How Today’s Internet is Killing our Culture”. Il s’agit d’une opposition radicale. [...]
[...] Really interesting 50 minute presentation and discussion by David Weinberger (Cluetrain Manifesto, Small Pieces Loosely Joined, Everything is Miscellaneous) and Andrew Keen (Cult of the Amateur). [...]
[...] I will start off by stating that I have not (yet) read this book. However, the the book’s title, summary and multiple online discussions about the book’s central theme (this example is particularly informative) have given me a fair enough idea of the book’s polemic theme. [...]
[...] Andrew Keen speaks at Supernova, $2,000. [...]
[...] Donnacha Delong’s original article reminds me so much of the kind of spurious arguments put forward by Andrew Keen in his Cult of the Amateur, and which have been so effectively dismantled by David Weinberger, amongst others. [...]
This theme is developed wholly. Well done!
Extrefox
About a couple of the questions — if Wishypedia is about that accuracy of the argument, why does any statement that doesn’t fit in to the world view of a media/celebrity/CONFORMITY-obsessed 13-year-old get rejected in favor of ultraconformist, abusive, TIMID BS?
And, if the NET gives people voices who never had them — same question.
The NET’s overall view of the world is that of a scared, bigoted, cruel, mean conservative conformist racist sizist agist sexist child.
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